WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.820 Avi Chomsky: webinar, so I will turn it over to Professor Abby Chomsky to introduce our speaker and kick off our event today. Thank you. 2 00:00:15.040 --> 00:00:16.660 Avi Chomsky: Actually. 3 00:00:16.970 --> 00:00:24.940 Avi Chomsky: I'm just going to turn it over to the students who are going to introduce our speaker. Welcome, Gord, thank you so much for coming, and 4 00:00:28.030 --> 00:00:36.070 Avi Chomsky: Hi, I'm, Warren Backman. There's, there's some folks who were here last week, good to see you again. 5 00:00:36.340 --> 00:00:43.330 Avi Chomsky: Hi, Amanda Warnock, here, kind of talk about some of your work, and then introduce the subject. 6 00:00:43.710 --> 00:01:03.439 Avi Chomsky: Right. So, Gord Hill is a Kwakwaque'wak activist, artist, and historian whose work has presented history of the Americas from an Indigenous perspective, ranging from first encounters with European colonization to ongoing resistance against capitalist state repression. 7 00:01:04.030 --> 00:01:14.439 Avi Chomsky: And the format we're talking about today, and this has been a theme, of the speakers in this series, is the graphic novel, which is not a new 8 00:01:14.440 --> 00:01:31.850 Avi Chomsky: medium, but it… for a lot of people, I think it is. I think it's one of those things that's kind of been a pathway to engage students that might just be turned off by a traditional textbook, as well as younger students who are more familiar and comfortable with, visual media kind of use that as, like, a pathway 9 00:01:31.850 --> 00:01:48.470 Avi Chomsky: to, you know, get more interest in the subject, and, the authors and illustrators, maybe there are some that have been kind of grounded in that medium for a while, and then some that have come to it and adapted their works, to the medium, so really excited about 10 00:01:48.570 --> 00:01:52.480 Avi Chomsky: About this particular text that you've written in Illustrated. 11 00:01:52.710 --> 00:02:03.559 Avi Chomsky: And, Gord Hill's first published comic details, 500 years of Indigenous resistance, which is the primary work that we're talking about today, which is being passed around right now. 12 00:02:04.050 --> 00:02:12.790 Avi Chomsky: This graphic history is not just a tale of exclusive victimization or reaction. 13 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:25.209 Avi Chomsky: But a chronicle of unending and continued resistance to occupation in the face of colonial empire, disease, and nation-state territorialization. 14 00:02:25.320 --> 00:02:37.049 Avi Chomsky: From resistance to imperial expansion to Wounded knee, and commentary on contemporary events in warrior publications, such as an article on Leonard Peltier. 15 00:02:37.270 --> 00:02:56.080 Avi Chomsky: Hill combats erasure through carrying forward a long tradition of anti-colonial, anti-capitalist resistance, and has continued this through his later comic publications, such as the Antifa comic book, as well as his comic on anti-capitalist resistance. 16 00:02:56.190 --> 00:03:04.060 Avi Chomsky: So thank you so much for coming here. Myself and some others here I know have been… 17 00:03:04.300 --> 00:03:12.330 Avi Chomsky: activists for a long time in climate spaces, and so we're really happy to hear you talk about your work, so thank you. 18 00:03:13.210 --> 00:03:13.990 Avi Chomsky: Thank you. 19 00:03:15.160 --> 00:03:16.340 Gord Hill: Alright, thanks. 20 00:03:16.690 --> 00:03:18.740 Gord Hill: Just start talking, I guess? 21 00:03:19.710 --> 00:03:22.260 Gord Hill: Oh, yeah. 22 00:03:22.590 --> 00:03:28.269 Avi Chomsky: I'm just going to put you on speaker view so that everybody here in the audience can see you better. 23 00:03:28.570 --> 00:03:29.440 Gord Hill: Okay. 24 00:03:29.980 --> 00:03:31.760 Gord Hill: How long do I speak for? 25 00:03:35.490 --> 00:03:36.220 Avi Chomsky: Absolutely. 26 00:03:36.770 --> 00:03:39.799 Avi Chomsky: Let's… I've been emailing forever. 27 00:03:40.310 --> 00:03:44.909 Avi Chomsky: Hi Gordon, I'm Annette. I've been emailing you for 6 months. 28 00:03:44.910 --> 00:03:45.300 Gord Hill: Yeah. 29 00:03:45.300 --> 00:04:04.929 Avi Chomsky: It's really up to you. I was thinking maybe 10 minutes, but it is, you know, at your leisure. You will, after your remarks, we will have a panel of students who have some prepared questions, and then we'll have questions from the room. I know you can't see the room, but it's quite full, so I'll just turn this around so you can get a view of anybody. They're waving. 30 00:04:04.930 --> 00:04:07.109 Avi Chomsky: Hey, everybody. Okay. 31 00:04:08.190 --> 00:04:09.789 Avi Chomsky: So, the floor is yours. 32 00:04:09.790 --> 00:04:11.270 Gord Hill: Okay, thanks, son. 33 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:19.629 Gord Hill: So, I was, I was gonna start talking about, how I did the 500 Years of Indigenous Resistance comic book, 34 00:04:19.910 --> 00:04:26.619 Gord Hill: So, originally, I, I, in 1992, because it was the 500-year 35 00:04:27.060 --> 00:04:31.820 Gord Hill: anniversary of the, invasion of the Americas, 36 00:04:32.110 --> 00:04:42.669 Gord Hill: And I had just kind of become involved in, Indigenous resistance and social movements at the time, and I was mostly inspired by the 1990 OCA crisis in, 37 00:04:42.900 --> 00:04:43.880 Gord Hill: Quebec? 38 00:04:44.210 --> 00:04:49.060 Gord Hill: Involving the Mohawk, Mohawk Nation, 39 00:04:50.110 --> 00:04:54.620 Gord Hill: And so, what I did at the time was, 40 00:04:54.920 --> 00:05:04.640 Gord Hill: because I was really interested in history, in learning about how Indigenous peoples came to be living on reservations, you know, how did we become colonized? 41 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:12.759 Gord Hill: And all this, so I had originally wrote an article in a newspaper I started publishing. 42 00:05:13.020 --> 00:05:17.750 Gord Hill: And it's been republished, so here's an example. 43 00:05:17.960 --> 00:05:22.390 Gord Hill: So I wrote a text version of, 500 Years of Resistance. 44 00:05:23.080 --> 00:05:30.039 Gord Hill: And just trying to, understand, you know, the… the history of it. So, I did that, and 45 00:05:31.130 --> 00:05:33.789 Gord Hill: Years later, in the late… 46 00:05:33.950 --> 00:05:41.039 Gord Hill: 1990s, around 1997, 1998, I began working with the Native Youth Movement. 47 00:05:41.210 --> 00:05:50.020 Gord Hill: Which was, A group of youth that were mostly the, the children of… 48 00:05:50.170 --> 00:05:59.600 Gord Hill: the red power generation. So a lot of these kids, their parents had been involved with, you know, Red Power groups, the American Indian Movement. 49 00:05:59.850 --> 00:06:01.580 Gord Hill: And, things like this. 50 00:06:01.780 --> 00:06:11.880 Gord Hill: And… We would organize, events and rallies and, kind of direct action 51 00:06:12.550 --> 00:06:15.989 Gord Hill: And while I was working with the youth, I… 52 00:06:16.610 --> 00:06:32.820 Gord Hill: I felt like there was, a need to have, a better history, even including recent events, like, even including the 1990 OCHA crisis, like, I felt like, the history was already kind of being minimized or erased. 53 00:06:33.540 --> 00:06:40.950 Gord Hill: So, OCA crisis in 1995, we had the, Yiperwash standoff in southern Ontario. 54 00:06:41.100 --> 00:06:50.190 Gord Hill: And the, standoff at Gustafsson Lake, Chapaten, in the Shikwapnek territory in, central BC, 55 00:06:50.470 --> 00:06:57.899 Gord Hill: And so I started doing these short comics. So here's an example I did on the Gustafsson Lake standoff. 56 00:06:58.290 --> 00:07:00.560 Gord Hill: under, black and white comics. 57 00:07:00.810 --> 00:07:04.190 Gord Hill: And so I did them on this 8x11, paper. 58 00:07:04.380 --> 00:07:08.359 Gord Hill: And they're about 4 to 8 pages, and 59 00:07:08.500 --> 00:07:22.690 Gord Hill: as long as I had a few copies of these, whenever we traveled somewhere to, a conference, or a powwow, or some kind of gathering, if I could just get access to a photocopy machine, I would be able to make these copies of these zines. 60 00:07:22.850 --> 00:07:24.540 Gord Hill: And so that's what I would do. 61 00:07:24.690 --> 00:07:40.110 Gord Hill: I found the band councils actually were the best, because they always had photocopiers, because they're, like, this bureaucratic institution, so anytime I got access to a photocopier, I could make these zines. And after a while, I had a collection of these. 62 00:07:40.570 --> 00:07:48.840 Gord Hill: And here's an example of, this one's been translated into German by some German comrades, and this one's on the Ochre crisis, so… 63 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:52.949 Gord Hill: It's a black and white, 8x11 comic, 64 00:07:53.110 --> 00:07:55.900 Gord Hill: And after a while, I had a collection of these comics. 65 00:07:56.170 --> 00:08:14.559 Gord Hill: And a friend of mine suggested if I, I should make it, like, a 500 years, kind of history. So I added a few more chapters, and another friend of mine had a book published at Arsenal Pulp Press in Vancouver, and they suggested I take this comic down to them. So I did, and they were, they agreed to publish it. 66 00:08:14.650 --> 00:08:18.030 Gord Hill: And that's how the first edition Team a boat? 67 00:08:18.300 --> 00:08:22.899 Gord Hill: And so this was the first graphic novel that Arsenal Pope Press had published. 68 00:08:23.070 --> 00:08:26.350 Gord Hill: And, they, 69 00:08:27.060 --> 00:08:39.020 Gord Hill: it's kind of on a cheaper pulp paper, has a really, really long introduction by Ward Churchill. Like, some people are wondering, when does the comic start, because there's so much, text. 70 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.430 Gord Hill: But anyway, that was the first edition. 71 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:45.579 Gord Hill: It did really well, I think it sold… 72 00:08:45.920 --> 00:08:53.430 Gord Hill: 22 or 23,000 copies, and a lot of teachers were using it in their classrooms, which was really cool. 73 00:08:53.530 --> 00:08:58.100 Gord Hill: It was… translated, it was published in Germany. 74 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:02.240 Gord Hill: And it was also published in, Italy. 75 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.240 Gord Hill: And, 76 00:09:05.520 --> 00:09:11.899 Gord Hill: after a while, I did the Antiflaw comic, and I started, I was really doing a lot more comics, and… 77 00:09:12.160 --> 00:09:14.930 Gord Hill: I felt like my artwork had improved a lot. 78 00:09:15.150 --> 00:09:20.640 Gord Hill: And I also had a lot more access to information, you know, through the internet. 79 00:09:21.030 --> 00:09:28.869 Gord Hill: And whatnot. So I, asked Arsenal if they'd be interested in me redoing the 500 Years comic. 80 00:09:29.050 --> 00:09:32.980 Gord Hill: Because I also learned how to color the Comics on the computer. 81 00:09:33.470 --> 00:09:39.450 Gord Hill: And so they agreed, and so that's when the new… the color edition came about. 82 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:55.130 Gord Hill: Which I'm a lot happier with, and I think it has, it's much better, research, and the artwork is a lot better. But I was able to expand, like, the first chapter of Columbus arriving, for example. 83 00:09:55.170 --> 00:10:01.289 Gord Hill: I was able to expand it a lot, because I actually found, Taino, who were the first people to encounter Columbus. 84 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:04.720 Gord Hill: I found Taino websites that talk about their history. 85 00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:16.310 Gord Hill: And just examples like that, so I was able to expand the chapters on the Taino, on the Mexica, the Inca, the Mapuche. 86 00:10:16.400 --> 00:10:25.689 Gord Hill: and then update it to, I think it was around, 2018 that this new edition kind of ended with the Shutdown Canada 87 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:31.669 Gord Hill: campaign here in Canada, which was in solidarity with, with Sowerton and trying to stop a pipeline. 88 00:10:32.630 --> 00:10:39.669 Gord Hill: And so, yeah, so the new edition's been out, for a few years now. 89 00:10:39.780 --> 00:10:48.610 Gord Hill: And, seems like it's doing really well. I also… it was also, translated into French. 90 00:10:48.790 --> 00:10:53.999 Gord Hill: in… somewhere in Quebec or Ontario, and they did, 91 00:10:54.290 --> 00:10:58.969 Gord Hill: They did a really good job. It's, hardcover, so that's kind of cool. 92 00:11:01.010 --> 00:11:11.389 Gord Hill: And the most recent, thing I just finished was, the new, revised, expanded edition of the Antifog comic book, which my publishers asked me to do. 93 00:11:11.710 --> 00:11:23.919 Gord Hill: I think another publisher was gonna translate it, and they wanted a more up-to-date version of it, so I just finished that a couple months ago, and it's been published now. 94 00:11:24.310 --> 00:11:31.650 Gord Hill: Yeah, in regards to 500 years of Indigenous resistance, I, my main, 95 00:11:31.950 --> 00:11:36.900 Gord Hill: motivation for doing the 500 years kind of history was, 96 00:11:37.110 --> 00:11:40.079 Gord Hill: Because, in 1992 at the time. 97 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:49.849 Gord Hill: There was kind of this narrative that was being promoted that it was a mu… it was at the meeting of two worlds, and it was kind of mutually beneficial. 98 00:11:50.560 --> 00:11:57.619 Gord Hill: And then there was unfortunate disease epidemics, which wiped out, you know, up to 90% of the Indigenous population. 99 00:11:57.780 --> 00:12:00.849 Gord Hill: And then on the other hand, the other narrative was, 100 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:10.170 Gord Hill: that the European colonizers had arrived and just kind of steamrolled over Indigenous peoples who were helpless victims in the face of genocide. 101 00:12:10.650 --> 00:12:14.789 Gord Hill: So… I f- I felt like there was, 102 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:21.320 Gord Hill: I didn't think either of those narratives were accurate, or… 103 00:12:21.660 --> 00:12:29.930 Gord Hill: Had, you know, all the information, so… Doing my research, And… 104 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:33.759 Gord Hill: The main thing I wanted to… 105 00:12:34.110 --> 00:12:37.699 Gord Hill: present was this history of resistance, because 106 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:47.700 Gord Hill: it was important to show that we weren't just helpless victims, that in many cases, the Spanish were unable to actually defeat Indigenous peoples. 107 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:54.150 Gord Hill: like, the Mapuche were never conquered by the Spanish. They resisted for 300 years. 108 00:12:54.560 --> 00:13:02.180 Gord Hill: And in other areas, it took many, many decades for European colonizers to actually 109 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:07.540 Gord Hill: defeat indigenous military forces. So… 110 00:13:07.820 --> 00:13:16.749 Gord Hill: I felt this was really important to have this history because a movement needs a culture of resistance. 111 00:13:17.060 --> 00:13:24.249 Gord Hill: And the history is an important part about it. A history of resistance is a very important part of having a culture of resistance. 112 00:13:24.390 --> 00:13:27.969 Gord Hill: And so I wanted to highlight these acts of resistance. 113 00:13:28.300 --> 00:13:38.889 Gord Hill: And the defeats that colonial forces actually suffered in their efforts to colonize Indigenous peoples across the Americas, 114 00:13:39.170 --> 00:13:42.239 Gord Hill: And so that was kind of my main, main motivation. 115 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:56.549 Gord Hill: I wrote… I wrote the comic. It's mostly… it's directed at Indigenous peoples, so that they can look at this history, and as one of the presenters mentioned, I find the graphic novels are a lot easier 116 00:13:56.760 --> 00:14:04.700 Gord Hill: To, for people who have, maybe not strong literacy skills, maybe young people who, 117 00:14:05.010 --> 00:14:15.449 Gord Hill: You know, don't have strong literacy skills, or people who don't have the energy if they, you know, they work, and they raise their kids, and they don't have the time or the energy to sit down to read. 118 00:14:15.640 --> 00:14:25.020 Gord Hill: these, very long historical books. And actually, what I found in my research was, especially the older historical books. 119 00:14:25.560 --> 00:14:32.670 Gord Hill: They're, they're quite racist, because, white… white supremacy was kind of, just… 120 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:36.110 Gord Hill: Accepted as the norm, 121 00:14:36.400 --> 00:14:41.289 Gord Hill: And so it was… it's hard… it's hard to read through a lot of these texts. 122 00:14:41.420 --> 00:14:52.349 Gord Hill: if you're an Indigenous person, because they're so thoroughly racist. So I kind of felt part of my… my role was to go through these historical 123 00:14:52.450 --> 00:14:59.739 Gord Hill: Textbooks, and to kind of reinterpret them, and put, you know, put them into the graphic novel format. 124 00:15:00.050 --> 00:15:06.700 Gord Hill: So… doing the work, it, takes a lot of research, because I have to research the history. 125 00:15:06.980 --> 00:15:17.680 Gord Hill: And then I have to put that into, like, a comic script, which each page is broken down into different panels and all this. And then I have to research, like. 126 00:15:18.030 --> 00:15:24.229 Gord Hill: You know, what kind of clothing did the people use? What did their shelters look like? What kind of weapons did they have? 127 00:15:24.580 --> 00:15:33.639 Gord Hill: So all the material culture, and that's for the Indigenous people. And then, for that time period, you know, what European colonial force were they… 128 00:15:33.910 --> 00:15:38.280 Gord Hill: Resisting, and what kind of clothing and weapons and… and… 129 00:15:38.410 --> 00:15:49.950 Gord Hill: that type of stuff did the Europeans have at that time? And then as it progresses through history, then I have to find the new, clothing or weapons or armor 130 00:15:50.280 --> 00:15:54.450 Gord Hill: And so all this stuff. And then I have to draw it, and then, 131 00:15:54.790 --> 00:16:02.590 Gord Hill: color it, and then add the text. So that's basically the process of, making the graphic novel. 132 00:16:02.810 --> 00:16:08.349 Gord Hill: And, yeah, I guess, 133 00:16:08.490 --> 00:16:14.030 Gord Hill: That's about 10 minutes, I think, so if people have questions, I'd be happy to answer them. 134 00:16:18.910 --> 00:16:23.870 Avi Chomsky: We'll start our Q&A with a panel of students who have some questions completed. 135 00:16:27.180 --> 00:16:32.970 Avi Chomsky: Will the… will everyone come up and speak here? And just change the view so that people can see you. 136 00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:35.970 Avi Chomsky: Okay. 137 00:16:37.890 --> 00:16:38.910 Avi Chomsky: Okay, thank you. 138 00:16:41.150 --> 00:16:56.380 Avi Chomsky: My name is Philip Fishman, I'm a history and political science double major, and first question I really wanted to ask was, in a political climate that is so hostile to the telling and contextualizing of Indigenous histories and colonial atrocities. 139 00:16:56.380 --> 00:17:09.739 Avi Chomsky: with an administration who has demonstrated itself to be incredibly hostile, particularly to anything they characterize as anti-American. How does this shape the way that you tell these histories, and how does it shape your work in general? 140 00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:20.059 Gord Hill: Well, it didn't really, affect me, because, well, I was working on the comment kind of before, Trump came to power. 141 00:17:21.099 --> 00:17:24.280 Gord Hill: With all his white supremacist lackeys, but 142 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:32.870 Gord Hill: because I really wrote it for Indigenous peoples, so that they would have a fuller understanding of history. 143 00:17:33.230 --> 00:17:49.090 Gord Hill: So I wasn't really affected by that. I think it's a… it's a good resource. These types of graphic novels are good resources to counter this narrative that, you know, now the Trump regime is presenting now. Like, they're basically trying to rewrite history. 144 00:17:49.180 --> 00:18:05.680 Gord Hill: I don't know if you've seen J.D. Vance, like, a week and a half ago or so was talk… I think he was at a Turning Point USA event, and he was talking about how Indigenous… how there was widespread child sacrifice among Indigenous peoples before Europeans arrived. 145 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:08.859 Gord Hill: And that type… that type of, 146 00:18:09.410 --> 00:18:24.120 Gord Hill: revision of history, and that's the type of stuff you find, like, in the late 1800s or something. So, yeah, but overall, it doesn't really affect me, because my main… our audience is Indigenous peoples. 147 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:27.370 Avi Chomsky: Those are pretty unquote. 148 00:18:29.020 --> 00:18:31.350 Avi Chomsky: How you doing, Gord? 149 00:18:31.350 --> 00:18:32.289 Gord Hill: Didn't get… 150 00:18:32.730 --> 00:18:37.989 Avi Chomsky: My name is Angel Garcia, I'm a history major, philosophy minor. 151 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:41.579 Avi Chomsky: I did review, 152 00:18:41.770 --> 00:18:49.169 Avi Chomsky: copy of an interview that you did, back in 2017 with CrimeThink, if that rings a bell. 153 00:18:49.780 --> 00:18:50.170 Gord Hill: Yeah. 154 00:18:50.170 --> 00:18:52.580 Avi Chomsky: You didn't… you did mention, 155 00:18:52.750 --> 00:18:59.840 Avi Chomsky: And one of your commentaries, a response about oral history and written history and its connections. 156 00:19:01.570 --> 00:19:17.720 Avi Chomsky: to, what you mentioned is, like, the middle ground, in which you use the, illustration book to convey that history. What resonated with me, was your mention of hip-hop as a form of, 157 00:19:17.840 --> 00:19:19.749 Avi Chomsky: That type of expression. 158 00:19:21.370 --> 00:19:29.190 Avi Chomsky: with my background, I spent a lot of time in New York City in the summertime, during the late 80s. 159 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:30.390 Avi Chomsky: And… 160 00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:42.150 Avi Chomsky: The correlation between, images and imagery and symbolism, as far as, like, graffiti being one of the main components of hip-hop. 161 00:19:42.340 --> 00:19:48.539 Avi Chomsky: Can you speak to just how powerful, that correlation is when you make 162 00:19:48.750 --> 00:19:56.840 Avi Chomsky: That connection between those three, like, you make that, triangular connection, how that works for resistance movements? 163 00:19:58.730 --> 00:20:05.770 Gord Hill: Yeah, I think it's, I mean, I really promote our diversity of, forms of communication, right? So, like… 164 00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:10.290 Gord Hill: my graphic novels are one form, but there's, like… I mean, I think, like. 165 00:20:10.470 --> 00:20:21.150 Gord Hill: you know, the history books are important, you know, videos are really important. Graffiti is important, because it… 166 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:38.710 Gord Hill: it reclaims public space in a sense, right? It puts the message out into a more public space. It's more accessible to people, that people are going to see it, but it's limited in what it can communicate. So, like, that's why I think all these forms, radio, all this stuff is really important. 167 00:20:38.710 --> 00:20:51.029 Gord Hill: Because it's all these diverse forums that actually start to inform people and, you know, educate people, what have you. Among my people, traditionally, we always had, you know, we had our oral histories. 168 00:20:51.240 --> 00:21:01.539 Gord Hill: Which are, like, you know, told over and over again, all the stories and whatnot. But we also had a really strong, artistic tradition, so… 169 00:21:01.590 --> 00:21:18.700 Gord Hill: All these beings that we might talk about, if they're supernatural beings, they were all present in our everyday life, because we could see representations of them, like, on, on paintings and carvings, like totem poles. Our house fronts were all painted. 170 00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:25.140 Gord Hill: Our everyday implements, like bowls and spoons, would be carved with these, 171 00:21:25.290 --> 00:21:34.200 Gord Hill: these crests that our ancestors had somehow gained, and now were part of our family history and tradition. 172 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.340 Gord Hill: And so, in a modern-day sense, like. 173 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:51.240 Gord Hill: I was… I was really into hip-hop because it had these different elements, like, it had the… the music that I was listening to was… talked about history and resistance and oppression. 174 00:21:51.390 --> 00:21:59.690 Gord Hill: and, you know, Malcolm X and stuff like that. And then it had a strong, and then the graffiti was its own art form. 175 00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:08.870 Gord Hill: And because I was an artist, I was really attracted to the idea of graffiti, and of course, I would go out and I would do lots of graffiti when I lived in, East Vancouver. 176 00:22:08.990 --> 00:22:15.789 Gord Hill: And I just felt it was a really powerful, format Especially, like, in areas of… 177 00:22:16.020 --> 00:22:29.140 Gord Hill: you know, areas of East Vancouver were kind of recognized as, like, okay, this is, like, a leftist… a leftist area, because you could tell by all the graffiti. And at one point, the premier of our province, he's, like, a governor. 178 00:22:29.300 --> 00:22:40.330 Gord Hill: refer to this area of East Vancouver as, like, a, like a red district, like a commie district, because of all the anarchist and socialist graffiti and that. 179 00:22:40.590 --> 00:22:52.909 Gord Hill: So I think all these things are really important, and they're all part of, like, the culture of resistance, all these different, you know, formats that we use to communicate and whatnot. 180 00:22:53.270 --> 00:23:00.319 Gord Hill: But yeah, I think it's, it's all really important. I think… I don't know if I answered your question. 181 00:23:00.320 --> 00:23:06.239 Avi Chomsky: No, you definitely did, and what really struck me was… 182 00:23:06.500 --> 00:23:13.010 Avi Chomsky: The… just the sheer amount of information that was omitted from us, in history books, as you mentioned. 183 00:23:13.260 --> 00:23:17.380 Avi Chomsky: And then getting those nuggets within the lyrics of hip-hop. 184 00:23:17.560 --> 00:23:29.399 Avi Chomsky: tracks. I mean, even though hip-hop has turned more of a commodified product than what it was intended to be, coming out of the South Bronx. But, 185 00:23:29.500 --> 00:23:37.910 Avi Chomsky: I just… it struck me when I read your response to that particular question, because it was so relevant to my life experience. 186 00:23:38.020 --> 00:23:50.520 Avi Chomsky: being marginalized, and not being able to really know the profound nature of our histories. And when I say histories, I really mean plurally, right? Because 187 00:23:50.830 --> 00:23:59.069 Avi Chomsky: We were… we were not given the opportunity to profoundly, know these histories, so I think that 188 00:23:59.520 --> 00:24:05.449 Avi Chomsky: those type of artistic creations are vital. So, thank you for that. 189 00:24:05.840 --> 00:24:06.849 Gord Hill: Alright, thank you. 190 00:24:11.290 --> 00:24:27.730 Avi Chomsky: Good afternoon. I'm Alex Washburn. I'm a history and secondary education double major, and I just have one, you know, major question for you. Other than showing my students your book, and books like it, do you have any suggestions for how 191 00:24:27.730 --> 00:24:40.249 Avi Chomsky: history teachers can educate their students on Indigenous peoples and their histories in a way that includes their own stories and doesn't fall into this all-too-common narrative and, 192 00:24:41.060 --> 00:24:41.950 Avi Chomsky: Yeah. 193 00:24:44.450 --> 00:24:57.360 Gord Hill: Yeah, I think, I mean, besides the graphic novels and maybe books written by Indigenous peoples, I think there's some YouTube channels, or some YouTube videos, at least, that are produced. 194 00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:09.420 Gord Hill: by Indigenous people that talk about, you know, maybe their nation or their struggle. There's also documentaries, like, about the OCA crisis. The National Film Board of Canada. 195 00:25:09.500 --> 00:25:20.620 Gord Hill: has had some progressive Indigenous people, make, documentary movies, particularly about the Oka crisis, Alanis Obamsawan. 196 00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:31.359 Gord Hill: is a well-known director, and she made a few, documentaries about the ochre crisis. And there's other ones about, Restigouche in 1980, I think, with the Mi'kmaq. 197 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:38.760 Gord Hill: the Quebec Provincial Police did a raid on their community, regarding, like, a fisheries dispute. 198 00:25:38.760 --> 00:25:55.269 Gord Hill: So there are documentaries out there, I think, that are really helpful as well, because again, it's like another format for people to access this history, so that's what I would recommend. And then also having Indigenous peoples come into your class. 199 00:25:55.390 --> 00:26:02.010 Gord Hill: that are, that are knowledgeable about their people's history would also be, good, I think. 200 00:26:03.540 --> 00:26:04.549 Avi Chomsky: Eric, thank you. 201 00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:05.530 Gord Hill: Huh. 202 00:26:07.820 --> 00:26:10.859 Avi Chomsky: Do they want to open the floor, or do… should I do the second one? 203 00:26:16.870 --> 00:26:17.540 Avi Chomsky: Thank you. 204 00:26:18.030 --> 00:26:35.100 Avi Chomsky: Thank you guys for your questions. We're now going to open, the… to the floor, for other folks in the room to ask any questions, and we're gonna try to encourage students to ask questions before, non-students, but could you raise your hand if you have a… 205 00:26:35.310 --> 00:26:36.480 Avi Chomsky: Question? 206 00:26:38.350 --> 00:26:41.890 Avi Chomsky: And if so, we'd ask for you to come up to the front, yeah. 207 00:26:42.390 --> 00:26:43.160 Avi Chomsky: That's cute. 208 00:26:43.300 --> 00:26:47.590 Avi Chomsky: Not a stu… that's okay, you raised your hand first. Go up to the front. 209 00:26:53.660 --> 00:27:00.130 Avi Chomsky: Good afternoon, and thank you for making the time to join us today. I was, 210 00:27:00.260 --> 00:27:11.670 Avi Chomsky: struck by your comment that your audience are, is Indigenous peoples, and, I wanted to know what are some of the key themes 211 00:27:12.010 --> 00:27:23.319 Avi Chomsky: that were important to address in thinking about your audience. And also, too, you mentioned, acts of resistance. 212 00:27:23.690 --> 00:27:42.739 Avi Chomsky: In terms of not making it easy to essentially colonize this land. So, really thinking about what your, perspectives or themes were in sharing that history from an Indigenous… Indigenous perspective, and 213 00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:50.520 Avi Chomsky: examples of acts of resistance that we can… we don't always maybe talk about. So, thank you. 214 00:27:53.340 --> 00:28:02.320 Gord Hill: Yeah, so, like I mentioned, I really wanted to highlight these acts of resistance, because I think they're inspiring, 215 00:28:02.730 --> 00:28:08.330 Gord Hill: And they show the resiliency of Indigenous peoples, 216 00:28:08.790 --> 00:28:14.750 Gord Hill: And so, I mean, some of the examples, like, I think of the Mopuche are kind of like… 217 00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:18.230 Gord Hill: A really good example of this, like, I… 218 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:26.620 Gord Hill: I mean, I knew a little bit about Mapuche history, but I didn't know the extent to which they were actually able to resist the Spanish, so… 219 00:28:26.800 --> 00:28:34.240 Gord Hill: in our present-day Chile, The Spanish had, defeated the Inca, which was a massive empire. 220 00:28:34.340 --> 00:28:53.729 Gord Hill: And they had, began, advancing into the Mapuche territory. And the Mapuche, and I'd like to highlight this difference, so, you know, the Mexica were fairly quickly defeated, and this was an empire of some 5 million inhabitants. 221 00:28:53.930 --> 00:28:54.890 Gord Hill: And… 222 00:28:55.210 --> 00:29:07.960 Gord Hill: the way the Spanish had defeated them was, you know, there was only a few hundred Spaniards, right? They're heavily armed, they got armor and all that, but they could not defeat an empire of 5 million. And so… 223 00:29:08.310 --> 00:29:16.759 Gord Hill: the way that they advanced was they were… as they advanced on Tenochtitlan, the, the capital of the Mexica, or Aztec. 224 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:23.679 Gord Hill: They encountered these various tribes and also other city-states that had been 225 00:29:23.730 --> 00:29:38.649 Gord Hill: defeated and submitted to the Mexica. And so, they basically rallied all these, other indigenous tribes and city-states, and they joined the Spaniards to march against the Mexica, and that's how the Mexica Empire was defeated. 226 00:29:38.690 --> 00:29:46.910 Gord Hill: And it was the same with the Inca. So, the Inca was a large empire. They could field an army of 100,000 warriors. 227 00:29:47.320 --> 00:29:48.250 Gord Hill: And… 228 00:29:48.520 --> 00:30:06.750 Gord Hill: Pizarro basically copied Cortez's method from Mexico, and used the same kind of strategy to defeat the Inca, because these empires were, you know, they're very large, they seemed very strong, but they're actually quite divided, and they're only held together by force of arms. 229 00:30:06.810 --> 00:30:15.770 Gord Hill: With the Mapuche, The Mapuja had a very different social organization. They were comprised of more autonomous 230 00:30:15.870 --> 00:30:19.170 Gord Hill: Self-organized village groups. 231 00:30:19.190 --> 00:30:37.540 Gord Hill: And these groups could, you know, they were autonomous to such a degree, they made trade, they made war, they made their own decisions as to how they were gonna conduct themselves. But in times of, crisis, they could all ally together and fight, you know, what would be a common enemy. 232 00:30:37.750 --> 00:30:39.280 Gord Hill: But the Mapuche… 233 00:30:39.450 --> 00:30:56.380 Gord Hill: because of this social organization, they could adopt new tactics very quickly, whereas with the empire, the Mexica or the Inca, because of this, massive bureaucracy, it would take a long time for tactical changes to be implemented. 234 00:30:56.630 --> 00:30:59.650 Gord Hill: So, for example, with the Mapuche. 235 00:31:00.040 --> 00:31:04.770 Gord Hill: They were able to see very quickly that the main, 236 00:31:05.030 --> 00:31:12.760 Gord Hill: problem in dealing with the Spanish was the horses, the cavalry. So, sometimes we have a concept that the main 237 00:31:13.010 --> 00:31:28.860 Gord Hill: the main weapon that was used against Indigenous people was the firearm, because the Europeans had such superior firearms that they were able to shoot people, but that wasn't really the case at this time period, because they had very primitive muskets, that weren't very reliable. 238 00:31:29.070 --> 00:31:37.929 Gord Hill: Especially in the jungle conditions. But the real problem for Indigenous peoples was the cavalry charges of the Spanish. 239 00:31:38.190 --> 00:31:46.900 Gord Hill: And so the Mopuche were able to adopt a new formation. It's basically a phalanx, which was used by European 240 00:31:47.030 --> 00:31:51.709 Gord Hill: Armies to stop cavalry charges, and it's when you get a whole bunch of, 241 00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:58.109 Gord Hill: Warriors packed closely together, but they have very, very long lances, or spears. 242 00:31:58.210 --> 00:32:00.690 Gord Hill: And these lances, 243 00:32:01.390 --> 00:32:12.869 Gord Hill: pointed out from the formation, and these would stop a cavalry charge, because a horse isn't gonna run into a spear. It's gonna stop, you know, before it encounters that. 244 00:32:13.520 --> 00:32:29.329 Gord Hill: So that was a tactical innovation that the Mapuche were able to use, and they were able to start countering these cavalry charges. And then also the other stuff that the Mapuche did was they adopted a new armor system, which was 245 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:34.549 Gord Hill: based on what they found with the Spanish, but it was made out of really heavy, leather. 246 00:32:34.910 --> 00:32:39.409 Gord Hill: So they were able to develop this new leather, armored, leather. 247 00:32:39.530 --> 00:32:43.829 Gord Hill: And then, they also, began capturing 248 00:32:43.940 --> 00:32:52.990 Gord Hill: horses that had either escaped or they had made raids on Spanish settlements, and so they began to acquire horses. 249 00:32:53.880 --> 00:33:03.260 Gord Hill: And… Soon, within a generation, they had, formed their own cavalry units. 250 00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:10.970 Gord Hill: and were eventually able to defeat the Spanish, cavalry with their own cavalry on the field of battle. 251 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:12.500 Gord Hill: And so… 252 00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:26.490 Gord Hill: this type of history I find really interesting. Like I said, I find it really inspiring, but it's also an insight into how these different forms of social organization 253 00:33:26.570 --> 00:33:35.509 Gord Hill: Impacted different nations, and how they were able to respond, or are not able to respond because of their form of social organization. 254 00:33:36.340 --> 00:33:40.760 Gord Hill: Because with these empires, the Mexica and the Inca. 255 00:33:40.870 --> 00:33:45.310 Gord Hill: Once their leadership was captured and they're basically decapitated. 256 00:33:45.580 --> 00:34:00.279 Gord Hill: the empire just kind of fell apart very quickly. And then another example that I compare it with is the, the Plains Indigenous people, like the Lakota and the Cheyenne and whatnot, because they were also organized and autonomous. 257 00:34:00.580 --> 00:34:04.030 Gord Hill: village groups, And… 258 00:34:04.280 --> 00:34:18.259 Gord Hill: they waged guerrilla warfare against the U.S. cavalry, and it took decades of this kind of war for the U.S. Cavalry to actually be able to defeat these indigenous peoples. 259 00:34:18.310 --> 00:34:26.959 Gord Hill: And it was really only because they began the extermination of the buffalo on the plains, and eliminating the primary 260 00:34:27.120 --> 00:34:46.719 Gord Hill: food… not only just a food source for Indigenous peoples on the plans, but also their source of shelter material, all kinds of tools and other materials that were very important to the way of life of Indigenous peoples on the plants. So these types of examples, I think, are really, 261 00:34:46.989 --> 00:34:49.090 Gord Hill: It's really, 262 00:34:49.219 --> 00:35:04.340 Gord Hill: good to know them, but to me, it's also empowering to see that your ancestors were able to inflict these defeats on the European colonial forces, and it really counters the narrative that we were, you know, these weak, helpless victims 263 00:35:04.900 --> 00:35:23.759 Gord Hill: And I think that's important for people, for young people today who are becoming involved in Indigenous social movements, to know that this history, that they weren't just weak, vulnerable victims of colonization, that they were actively resisting it, and that we continue this resistance today. 264 00:35:25.970 --> 00:35:30.730 Avi Chomsky: Thank you so much. Do we have time for another question, or, what… 265 00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:38.049 Avi Chomsky: It goes to 1. Okay, fantastic, I was worried it was 1230. All right, wonderful. Then, do we have any other, questions in the audience? 266 00:35:38.200 --> 00:35:39.010 Avi Chomsky: Yeah. 267 00:35:39.860 --> 00:35:40.820 Avi Chomsky: Yeah. 268 00:35:43.650 --> 00:36:03.000 Avi Chomsky: Oh, hi Gordon, how are you? So, I'm speaking from the perspective of somebody who has been involved in some of these struggles, like in Chiapas in 2000, and Quebec City in 2001, and, you know, the anti-capitalist convergence in DC two weeks after September 11th. So. 269 00:36:03.010 --> 00:36:05.619 Avi Chomsky: one of the things I've noticed is 270 00:36:05.620 --> 00:36:24.159 Avi Chomsky: through, like, the themes in your work, you know, that there's… there are the elements of resistance, and then there are the power structures that come to punish the people, on the basis of their resistance, and obviously so many episodes that you've discussed, and episodes from Indigenous history, and then, of course, the Haitian Revolution, 271 00:36:24.160 --> 00:36:25.139 Avi Chomsky: Which was… 272 00:36:25.140 --> 00:36:36.410 Avi Chomsky: we can see the effects of, kind of, that today still punishing, people for that resistance. And then, more recently, and you kind of touched upon this, the idea of Trump 273 00:36:36.560 --> 00:36:52.570 Avi Chomsky: designating Antifa a terrorist organization, just if you've ever… obviously, people who've been involved with that, that's kind of absurd anyway. But, so I guess my question is, based on the work that you've done, what are some strategies 274 00:36:52.600 --> 00:37:06.669 Avi Chomsky: that you would recommend, also the Palestinian Liberation Movement, which we've talked about a bit, like, what have you found to be kind of successful strategies in terms of… from the perspective of 500 years of Indigenous resistance up until today? 275 00:37:08.610 --> 00:37:10.509 Gord Hill: Well, I think, really, the, 276 00:37:10.670 --> 00:37:21.750 Gord Hill: the main thing I would say is the use of a diversity of tactics. I mean, I think, you know, that term comes from those anti-globalization mobilizations. 277 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:30.130 Gord Hill: Because it's trying to overcome these internal divisions over tactics and that. But I really promote the idea of a diversity of tactics. 278 00:37:30.150 --> 00:37:47.569 Gord Hill: Because it… and it comes from having, like, a diverse community of people involved in these movements, which movements are. They're comprised of very diverse communities, and they all have different approaches and different tactics that they think are more effective. So, that's the main thing I promote. 279 00:37:47.930 --> 00:37:56.189 Gord Hill: And militant direct action is a tactic, and it has been successful, and it's… it's one of the… 280 00:37:56.300 --> 00:38:02.919 Gord Hill: For me, it's one of the most important aspects of resistance, because, 281 00:38:03.060 --> 00:38:05.550 Gord Hill: The powers that be, you know, they… 282 00:38:05.750 --> 00:38:21.730 Gord Hill: They tolerate, and in many ways, they promote a pacifist, approach to social movements. They encourage Martin Luther King and Gandhi-type tactics and strategies. 283 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:25.669 Gord Hill: They have a national holiday for Martin Luther King. 284 00:38:25.830 --> 00:38:28.010 Gord Hill: They don't have one for Malcolm X. 285 00:38:28.680 --> 00:38:31.520 Gord Hill: And to me, that says a lot, because 286 00:38:31.630 --> 00:38:49.419 Gord Hill: what they fear is that type of militancy, and they would prefer people just engage in nonviolent civil disobedience. And not that that's a totally ineffective tactic or anything, it is effective. It's one of the tactics that we can use. 287 00:38:49.990 --> 00:38:50.890 Gord Hill: But… 288 00:38:51.320 --> 00:39:08.049 Gord Hill: The state was very quickly able to respond to campaigns of nonviolent civil disobedience, and they know that the tactic is maybe hundreds of people are going to be arrested, so they'll open up facilities to, 289 00:39:08.530 --> 00:39:09.470 Gord Hill: you know. 290 00:39:09.630 --> 00:39:20.100 Gord Hill: Take hundreds of people prisoner and have a process by which they can be, you know, arrested and booked and have, 291 00:39:20.160 --> 00:39:32.400 Gord Hill: a court appearance and all that stuff. They have this, like, whole process in place to deal with that, but what they've… is really difficult for them to deal with is militant, direct action in the streets and whatnot, so… 292 00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:35.629 Gord Hill: That's why I think diversity of tactics is really important. 293 00:39:35.780 --> 00:39:36.680 Gord Hill: And… 294 00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:52.150 Gord Hill: building a culture of resistance is really important as well, because that's what motivates people, it inspires people, and it informs people of different tactics that were successful. And looking back at history, 295 00:39:53.140 --> 00:40:09.429 Gord Hill: like, just, like, dealing with, like, the example of the Mupuche that I brought up with the horses, I mean, the phalanx is, like, a historically proven tactic to counter a cavalry charge that could be used today by people, 296 00:40:09.940 --> 00:40:19.529 Gord Hill: for example, if they're dealing with riot police on horses. So, history has all kinds of little lessons that we can learn from 297 00:40:19.530 --> 00:40:30.010 Gord Hill: in terms of even down to these types of tactics, I think. So that, to me, is, like, why history is really important, but history shows that a diversity of tactics is what 298 00:40:30.040 --> 00:40:38.549 Gord Hill: is what successful movements have used to achieve liberation, right? So I think that's the most important thing I would say. 299 00:40:40.270 --> 00:40:41.370 Avi Chomsky: Thank you so much. 300 00:40:42.580 --> 00:40:59.519 Avi Chomsky: Thank you. Oh, we have another question in the back, and one thing, also for folks asking questions, and I think it's helpful, as with the last question, to stand up behind the camera while the answer's being given, so that our, author who's speaking isn't, you know, staring at the wall, back here when answering the question, so thank you for staying. 301 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:17.310 Avi Chomsky: How you doing, Gord? My name is Dominic. I'm an electrician, if that's relevant. I got one quick question that's kind of more logistical, and then I have a bigger question. First one is, are any of your books available in Spanish? 302 00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:25.709 Gord Hill: Not that I know of at this time. I've talked to the publisher because a lot of people have offered to translate it into Spanish. 303 00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:33.540 Gord Hill: And I've talked to Arsenal about it, and the way that they work is they work with other publishers. 304 00:41:33.540 --> 00:41:46.760 Gord Hill: And other publishers will hire their own translators and translate the book and whatnot. So that's how the other translations have come about. And they, said that they're trying to find, a publisher 305 00:41:47.350 --> 00:41:58.739 Gord Hill: to translate it into Spanish and to get it published into Spanish. That's something I would like to see, because I think there's… I mean, all of South… almost all of South and Central America are speaking Spanish. 306 00:41:58.890 --> 00:42:08.070 Gord Hill: With the exception of those areas colonized by the Portuguese. So, yeah, I'm just kind of waiting to hear if there's any progress on that, but yeah. 307 00:42:08.550 --> 00:42:21.779 Avi Chomsky: Okay, thank you. My other question is, you know, as you've been, you know, adding on to your 500 years book, what… are you working on any, further additions to that? 308 00:42:22.030 --> 00:42:32.720 Avi Chomsky: And kind of related to that, what are some examples today of Indigenous resistance that you, would encourage us to learn more about and support? 309 00:42:34.180 --> 00:42:44.990 Gord Hill: So with the comic, I'm not working on any additions to the 500 Years comic. What I am working on right now is, it's like a 100-page 310 00:42:45.240 --> 00:42:48.809 Gord Hill: Black and white graphic novel about, residential schools. 311 00:42:48.980 --> 00:42:55.319 Gord Hill: And it's based on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report that we had here in Canada. 312 00:42:55.490 --> 00:43:01.009 Gord Hill: I'm working with a university professor from Manitoba, and he's provided me the script 313 00:43:01.190 --> 00:43:05.469 Gord Hill: And, I'm just starting the inking process on that. 314 00:43:05.590 --> 00:43:12.759 Gord Hill: The, I forgot the last part of your question. 315 00:43:13.130 --> 00:43:19.090 Avi Chomsky: Indigenous resistance, movements or struggles today that we should learn about and support? 316 00:43:19.370 --> 00:43:27.910 Gord Hill: Right, so right now, I mean, the Wet'suwet'en have just gone through their anti-pipeline protests, 317 00:43:28.530 --> 00:43:39.089 Gord Hill: they were not successful, but they're still dealing with some court cases. I think the Apache are dealing with, a land struggle down in the southern U.S. 318 00:43:42.270 --> 00:43:56.389 Gord Hill: Yeah, that's, I mean, that's all I'm really aware of right now. Here in our area, we're trying to kick, these fish farms out of the area, because it has a really bad impact on wild salmon. 319 00:43:56.530 --> 00:44:03.310 Gord Hill: And salmon is, like, our buffalo. It's the most important food resource for our region. 320 00:44:04.010 --> 00:44:12.659 Gord Hill: I mean, there's lots of, like, small struggles. I think there's some anti-pipeline struggles over on the eastern seaboard of the United States. 321 00:44:12.770 --> 00:44:17.919 Gord Hill: And in Canada right now, because of the Trump policies. 322 00:44:17.990 --> 00:44:34.100 Gord Hill: the threats against Canada, the government, under the new Prime Minister, Mark Carney, is, kind of fast-tracking all these massive industrial projects, mining and oil and gas projects, including pipelines. 323 00:44:34.270 --> 00:44:52.219 Gord Hill: And so I think there's gonna be, a growing kind of movements against some of these projects, because people want to, protect their, you know, their territory, their, their, their water and their land and whatnot. But yeah, that's all I can think of at the moment. 324 00:44:53.230 --> 00:44:53.990 Avi Chomsky: Thank you. 325 00:44:57.720 --> 00:45:03.160 Avi Chomsky: Thank you. Any other hands for questions, Pavi? 326 00:45:08.590 --> 00:45:22.830 Avi Chomsky: So, thank you so much for coming. I also teach in the history department, and I taught your book last year, and some of my students who read it in my class last year, I teach a class on Indigenous histories of the Americas, so glad to see some students here from that class. 327 00:45:23.270 --> 00:45:38.669 Avi Chomsky: So, a couple of things. One that I was just thinking about, because my specialty is Latin American history, but certainly for Indigenous struggles today, I would say there is so much happening in Latin America that in some ways, you know, I feel like Indigenous struggles are sort of the… 328 00:45:38.670 --> 00:45:47.399 Avi Chomsky: protagonists of a lot of what's happening in Latin America today, and a lot of them are very parallel to what you were talking about in terms of 329 00:45:47.520 --> 00:46:01.440 Avi Chomsky: Against big energy projects, big mining projects, agribusiness, displacement, that that is, like, just so current everywhere in Latin America, really. The struggles against extractivism. 330 00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:12.730 Avi Chomsky: But… so I kind of had two questions that I just wanted to ask you to elaborate on, because to me, they were so important in your book. One is the way you connect 331 00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:25.349 Avi Chomsky: the continent, and, like, I… when I was trying to put together the course, yours was the only book I could find, and I just used this version, but, 332 00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:38.930 Avi Chomsky: that really looked at the connections and continuities of Indigenous struggles in Latin America, in Canada, in the United States, and I just wanted you to hear you say something a little bit more about that, because that was so important to me and to my own work. 333 00:46:39.070 --> 00:46:46.980 Avi Chomsky: And the other thing that I find myself constantly going back and quoting you, and I actually didn't see this in the graphic edition, but it's in the 334 00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:59.820 Avi Chomsky: the text edition, extermination and assimilation, two methods, one goal. And I just found that so compelling, and I find myself reaching for that phrase so often, so I just wanted to hear you say a little bit 335 00:46:59.820 --> 00:47:01.610 Avi Chomsky: More about that, too. 336 00:47:02.220 --> 00:47:04.199 Gord Hill: Sure, yeah, well, with the… 337 00:47:04.230 --> 00:47:21.619 Gord Hill: When I approached the 500 years of Indigenous resistance, the history, I really wanted to include all of the Americas, because it began down in the Caribbean region and expanded outwards from there. So, if you're talking about Indigenous history and resistance, like, how could you not 338 00:47:21.620 --> 00:47:32.410 Gord Hill: talk about that, because that's where it began, and the methods that the Spanish used, and I just think it was really important for Indigenous people in North America 339 00:47:32.930 --> 00:47:36.500 Gord Hill: To know that history of what happened 340 00:47:37.100 --> 00:47:49.510 Gord Hill: in Central and South America, and how it informs the current, like, what's going on today in South America is all a result of this colonial history. So I felt it was really important, 341 00:47:50.130 --> 00:48:00.810 Gord Hill: It just wouldn't be complete without talking about what happened and what is happening in South America. And in regards to the quote, 342 00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:03.420 Gord Hill: It's like the… 343 00:48:03.540 --> 00:48:21.239 Gord Hill: extermination, assimilation. It's like this… it's either way, what they want is… what the colonial powers wanted was to clear the land of the indigenous inhabitants so that they could take the resources unhindered, without opposition, and… 344 00:48:21.730 --> 00:48:39.960 Gord Hill: If it required extermination, like a genocidal warfare, then that's what they would do, and if they were able to take the survivors of that genocidal war and assimilate them into the colonial society, that would achieve the goal as well. And that's basically what the 345 00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:47.900 Gord Hill: What that slogan or that term references, because What we're dealing with today 346 00:48:48.090 --> 00:48:54.860 Gord Hill: particularly in Canada, is the assimilation of Indigenous peoples, and that was the goal of the residential schools. 347 00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:00.029 Gord Hill: And… it… in Canada, we kind of have this thing, like, oh, well. 348 00:49:00.180 --> 00:49:07.960 Gord Hill: this weird history, like, well, in Canada, we didn't carry out large-scale warfare like they did in the United States. 349 00:49:08.130 --> 00:49:12.560 Gord Hill: And as the British expanded across what would become Canada. 350 00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:32.389 Gord Hill: to a certain extent, it's kind of true, but it's because they were able to benefit from the extermination of the buffalo that a lot of the Plains Indigenous peoples… all of the Plains Indigenous people relied on. So, there's this kind of weird thing in Canada where there's this skewed sense of history 351 00:49:32.780 --> 00:49:43.260 Gord Hill: where this type of military violence wasn't as common, and that was owing to the extermination of the buffalo. So, by the time the British reached a lot of these 352 00:49:43.520 --> 00:49:56.290 Gord Hill: areas in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, for example, the people were already quite weakened by the extermination of the buffalo. And so, in Canada, there's always been more of this approach of assimilation. 353 00:49:56.340 --> 00:50:06.220 Gord Hill: than, extermination. And I… I think that the term kind of, references that, because that's what I was really kind of… 354 00:50:06.350 --> 00:50:11.560 Gord Hill: trying to figure out at the time when I wrote that book, 355 00:50:12.080 --> 00:50:18.110 Gord Hill: just talking about the history in Canada, where it took a different turn than in the United States. 356 00:50:21.120 --> 00:50:22.019 Avi Chomsky: Thank you. 357 00:50:24.740 --> 00:50:28.430 Avi Chomsky: And, oh, yes, excuse me. 358 00:50:28.650 --> 00:50:33.580 Avi Chomsky: Then I have a follow-up question I want to answer after as well. No, please… 359 00:50:35.100 --> 00:50:45.549 Avi Chomsky: Hi, Gord. I'm Annette again, and I'm a historian of Europe, but I interact with the history of the Americas in a course called The Atlantic World. 360 00:50:45.630 --> 00:50:55.899 Avi Chomsky: And I'm just gonna… first, it's not really a question, I just want to say a few things I really admired about your work, and I was really impressed with, was how you take very, very complex histories. 361 00:50:56.080 --> 00:51:05.719 Avi Chomsky: And present them in a… not just comprehensible way, but, sort of with depth, and there's a lot of… 362 00:51:06.540 --> 00:51:23.209 Avi Chomsky: you hit at a lot of key issues, like resistance, but also, the reliance of, you know, like, all the Indigenous people were not all together. They had their own conflicts that the Spanish benefited from, and that later… the later struggles that you talk about, could be exploited as well. 363 00:51:23.260 --> 00:51:32.279 Avi Chomsky: All right, I'm going to get to my question. But anyway, I really admire this work. I think that it's amazing what you have been able to achieve in telling this story of resistance. 364 00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:43.330 Avi Chomsky: And in teaching the Atlantic world, it's also, as you said, this isn't the story we usually read, even with more modern authors, so you've done a lot, I think, to, 365 00:51:43.330 --> 00:51:47.289 Avi Chomsky: highlight Native resistance, and to do so in a graphic way that is 366 00:51:47.290 --> 00:51:54.270 Avi Chomsky: really engaging and respectful. I also find the imagery around the conquest to be very racist. 367 00:51:54.490 --> 00:52:10.950 Avi Chomsky: Anyway, to the question. So I'm wondering, when you took your, your first work, which was a prose work, and turned it into a graphic work, did this lead to new insights, or… 368 00:52:11.170 --> 00:52:19.630 Avi Chomsky: And you've already talked about the different kinds of research you had to do, but did you get new insights into the history itself in trying to put it into this new format? 369 00:52:21.140 --> 00:52:22.750 Gord Hill: Yeah, I did, and… 370 00:52:23.200 --> 00:52:36.349 Gord Hill: Mostly in, like, the material cultural sense, because when you're just writing the text, it's this history, and you don't really get into some of these kind of details of 371 00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:52.880 Gord Hill: you know, how… how did people organize themselves? What did their villages look like? What type of clothing? What kind of weapons did they have? So that's, like, something that I… when you're just writing the text of the history, it's not really that relevant. 372 00:52:53.490 --> 00:53:08.740 Gord Hill: But when you're doing the graphic novel, and you have to present the imagery, this is what these people, you know, look like, or at least as close as possible as I can, this is what these people look like, this is how they might have organized themselves, 373 00:53:09.380 --> 00:53:13.829 Gord Hill: So that was, like… to me, that was, like, I think that's the biggest thing, 374 00:53:14.240 --> 00:53:21.430 Gord Hill: But then it was quite different, because when I originally wrote the text, alls I had was those old history books. 375 00:53:21.820 --> 00:53:29.919 Gord Hill: And… Because that textbook, is from… is written in 1991, 1992. 376 00:53:30.090 --> 00:53:36.220 Gord Hill: And I didn't have a computer. Nobody I knew even had a computer, so everything was just these textbooks. 377 00:53:37.560 --> 00:53:57.419 Gord Hill: And whereas now, with the graphic novel, a lot more of it is based on the internet research, like I mentioned with the Taino websites that were really helpful, because they have their own… they talk about their own history, their own resistance, and they have articles about their own… their clothing, and the weapons, and stuff like that. 378 00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:15.809 Gord Hill: So, it's very different. It was, like, being written at different times in a different world. So, the first one is just books, the second one is, you know, books, sure, but also, like, a lot of internet information, including the graphic imagery, the material culture. There's so much more available. 379 00:54:15.950 --> 00:54:26.549 Gord Hill: to access on the internet. So that's what I… I found those to be very different. But, yeah, just the access to information. So the Mapuche story, again, like. 380 00:54:28.330 --> 00:54:47.810 Gord Hill: there was just so much to it, that when I originally did even the comic, which was done, I think, around 2010, the first edition, the black and white one, even then, my information about the Mapuche was so limited, you know, there's the highlights that you hear about, but… 381 00:54:48.110 --> 00:55:05.400 Gord Hill: just… no, I didn't know anything about how they organized their own cavalry, they made their armor, the tactics they were using, that type of stuff. So that was a really different thing, but I don't know if it was just because of the graphic novel format. I think it was more because I had much more information available to me. 382 00:55:06.100 --> 00:55:17.280 Avi Chomsky: All right. I can't do another question because there's someone else, but I just wanted to say thank you for all the highlighting of the women. That was really tremendous, too. 383 00:55:17.680 --> 00:55:18.880 Gord Hill: Alright, thank you. 384 00:55:20.750 --> 00:55:21.590 Avi Chomsky: Thank you. 385 00:55:21.700 --> 00:55:32.349 Avi Chomsky: So I have a question that's sort of a follow-up on some of the answers you've provided and the, some of your discussion in the talk ahead of time, on… 386 00:55:32.750 --> 00:55:44.530 Avi Chomsky: the ways we can kind of try to learn from these historical tactics of resistance. And so, I had read a article for a history class, last year. 387 00:55:44.670 --> 00:55:51.489 Avi Chomsky: Which sparked a lot of classroom debate, and it was an article about the Pequot War, which… 388 00:55:51.820 --> 00:55:59.989 Avi Chomsky: described… it tried to refute claims of the Pequot War being a genocidal war by describing the necessity 389 00:56:00.100 --> 00:56:09.579 Avi Chomsky: Of, or the kind of state of need of the colonists, because they were starving to death, in large part because they, were really trying to 390 00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:16.500 Avi Chomsky: grow English crops and non-English soil and whatnot. But… 391 00:56:16.910 --> 00:56:23.239 Avi Chomsky: My reaction to this, as well as that of some of my classmates, was that it was the… 392 00:56:24.460 --> 00:56:40.149 Avi Chomsky: almost intended consequence of a genocidal regime to create the conditions whereby that kind of conflict of stealing crops, burning Indigenous families becomes necessary, right? Or appears as becoming necessary. And so I don't think that could be divorced from 393 00:56:40.390 --> 00:56:42.529 Avi Chomsky: genocide. But to my question. 394 00:56:42.640 --> 00:56:47.410 Avi Chomsky: Your work talks quite a bit about these 395 00:56:47.580 --> 00:56:57.979 Avi Chomsky: Other kinds of byproducts of, genocidal colonization, such as, in large part, disease and epidemic. 396 00:56:58.190 --> 00:57:00.970 Avi Chomsky: And my question is, in… 397 00:57:01.250 --> 00:57:12.980 Avi Chomsky: What role could historic resistance play in, kind of, combating these other sorts of byproducts of genocidal… 398 00:57:13.110 --> 00:57:18.880 Avi Chomsky: Colonization, such as impoverishment, disease, and hunger. 399 00:57:21.380 --> 00:57:25.549 Gord Hill: Like, how could, resistance counter those byproducts? 400 00:57:25.910 --> 00:57:32.540 Avi Chomsky: Yeah, which some of these sort of somewhat racist historical narratives might say is not… 401 00:57:32.810 --> 00:57:38.920 Avi Chomsky: Violent genocide itself, it's a kind of accidental consequence of the genocide. 402 00:57:39.770 --> 00:57:57.349 Gord Hill: Right, yeah, well, I guess it, it kind of minimizes the impact of war on a community, which is not only the violent military action, the attacks on the community, but also their… perhaps their… 403 00:57:57.550 --> 00:58:08.879 Gord Hill: Their reduced ability to gather their crops, or their forced displacement from their area because of attacks by colonial militias, for example. 404 00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:18.549 Gord Hill: The destruction of their shelters, their… perhaps their canoes, their methods of transport, their… 405 00:58:18.590 --> 00:58:33.460 Gord Hill: the materials they need to survive winter is the foods that they've gathered and stored to survive the winter. So all those things have a major impact on a community and its ability to basically survive. 406 00:58:33.600 --> 00:58:36.700 Gord Hill: If I look at the northwest coast here. 407 00:58:36.930 --> 00:58:55.019 Gord Hill: You know, we had a lot of acts of resistance against these trading vessels, which were heavily armed. They're basically like floating fortresses with cannons and, you know, all the personnel could be armed, all the sailors, and then whatnot. 408 00:58:55.130 --> 00:59:00.190 Gord Hill: for… In our context, the way we, 409 00:59:00.410 --> 00:59:17.799 Gord Hill: set up our village sites where they're always on the beach, they're always accessible to the ocean, they might be in a harbor, but they're accessible to the ocean, or they're at the mouth of a river. So, and… so all our village sites were accessible 410 00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:20.120 Gord Hill: to, gunboats. 411 00:59:20.200 --> 00:59:25.450 Gord Hill: And the gunboats could come in and bombard the village if they didn't submit. 412 00:59:25.470 --> 00:59:44.519 Gord Hill: to, you know, the colonial trade, or the colonial powers, which became the British. So our villages could be bombarded, all of our stocks, like, the people would have to flee the village, and then Marines could be sent in, and they would destroy the housing, 413 00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:53.639 Gord Hill: the canoes and all this… the food that had been stored. And now, that community is basically unable to actually resist 414 00:59:53.640 --> 01:00:05.399 Gord Hill: And they would have to go to other communities who would then have to take them in and provide them with, you know, the means to survive. So all these types of things that people might consider byproducts or whatever. 415 01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:24.509 Gord Hill: are usually the direct result of military violence, and once they occur, it reduces the ability of the population to actually engage in resistance, because now they have to go back into survival mode to gather those resources to survive the winter, and that's where you had them 416 01:00:24.670 --> 01:00:34.880 Gord Hill: I think they became much more susceptible to disease epidemics, and of course, starvation, because they have no food. All their crops have been destroyed, and… 417 01:00:34.940 --> 01:00:52.120 Gord Hill: Yeah, it's all part of a genocidal process. I mean, you look at what's happening in the Gaza Strip, they're destroying all the infrastructure that a population needs to survive. They're destroying all… any kinds of methods of feeding themselves, they're destroying… 418 01:00:52.120 --> 01:00:58.890 Gord Hill: And so this is always kind of the part of a process of a genocidal colonial war. 419 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:11.980 Avi Chomsky: Thank you so much. And I know there were some other folks who had questions who had asked ones before, since we have, some limited time left. Does anyone who has not asked a question yet have a question? 420 01:01:13.620 --> 01:01:17.400 Avi Chomsky: Then, you had a follow-up question to ask? 421 01:01:21.270 --> 01:01:23.729 Avi Chomsky: Yeah, and this will be the last one. 422 01:01:26.200 --> 01:01:41.509 Avi Chomsky: I'm back. So, I was wondering if you'd talk a little bit about how you highlight the involvement of women in resistance, because I think that's just incredible, and is absolutely… the silence is deafening elsewhere about this. 423 01:01:43.070 --> 01:01:47.720 Gord Hill: Yeah, well, actually, with the first edition, 424 01:01:47.950 --> 01:01:56.490 Gord Hill: So the first edition was kind of a patchwork, came together from those comics that I'd mentioned, that I've eventually compiled, and then I added a few more chapters. 425 01:01:56.510 --> 01:02:10.739 Gord Hill: And so, it was really focused on the military aspects of anti-colonial resistance. And so, some people at Arsenal Pulp Press had actually commented about that there was a real lack of women 426 01:02:10.780 --> 01:02:17.440 Gord Hill: in… in that first edition, and so that… I… and I agreed, and I made, 427 01:02:17.530 --> 01:02:22.500 Gord Hill: The decision to include more in the new revised, the color edition. 428 01:02:22.620 --> 01:02:30.650 Gord Hill: Obviously, women are a very important part of resistance movements, and to exclude them is, 429 01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:32.609 Gord Hill: There's, like, a big oversight. 430 01:02:32.940 --> 01:02:51.680 Gord Hill: the only thing is, like, for my thing with the… with the resistance aspect is, generally a lot of the armed conflict was carried out by the men of the community. But when I found examples, because there always were exceptions, and… and so women were always involved. 431 01:02:52.160 --> 01:02:53.920 Gord Hill: in fighting. 432 01:02:54.060 --> 01:03:11.970 Gord Hill: it was just… it wasn't, widespread, and I didn't find it to be that common, but when I did find examples, I wanted to highlight it, because today we have women… the women are obviously involved in… in these movements, and they're often at the forefront of being the most militant. 433 01:03:12.060 --> 01:03:27.720 Gord Hill: participants in these movements. If you look at OCA, you can see women being involved. They're carrying rifles, they're trying to organize the resistance, they're trying to control some of the men who are kind of losing control. 434 01:03:29.030 --> 01:03:41.789 Gord Hill: So, yeah, it is a really important part of our history and… and the history of resistance. I think if I'd had more… like, if I just focused more on one aspect of a struggle. 435 01:03:42.050 --> 01:03:52.090 Gord Hill: I would have… you would have included more of what goes on within a community organizing, like… like, all the logistical support. 436 01:03:52.420 --> 01:04:02.589 Gord Hill: that's required for a community to engage in resistance, and again, women are especially prominent in that role as well. 437 01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:09.099 Avi Chomsky: Yeah, the modern examples do a good job at kind of illustrating all that behind-the-scenes work. 438 01:04:09.950 --> 01:04:10.530 Gord Hill: Yeah. 439 01:04:10.530 --> 01:04:14.120 Avi Chomsky: I think it shut down Canada, the four women that started that. 440 01:04:14.860 --> 01:04:17.680 Gord Hill: Yeah, I don't know more, I think. 441 01:04:17.680 --> 01:04:19.739 Avi Chomsky: Oh, idle anymore, sorry. Yeah. 442 01:04:19.740 --> 01:04:21.890 Gord Hill: Yeah, so that's an example, 443 01:04:22.400 --> 01:04:24.429 Gord Hill: And that's kind of like, 444 01:04:26.160 --> 01:04:39.200 Gord Hill: I think it speaks more to how our movements are, like, the conditions our movements organize under today, but, historically, like, among my people, it was the man who went out to fight, 445 01:04:39.250 --> 01:04:43.889 Gord Hill: there would be women involved, but like I said, it was more of the exception. 446 01:04:43.930 --> 01:05:02.739 Gord Hill: But, so, when I did find examples of women warriors, I definitely wanted to include them to inspire the women of today, to be, you know, warriors engaged in the resistance as well. The Mopuche, again, they're like the heroes, they're like the stars of the book. Again, they had a very… 447 01:05:04.580 --> 01:05:22.830 Gord Hill: autonomous, more egalitarian, form of social organization, and so women were much more prominent, and as I have in the comic, they actually participated in armed fighting. So, yeah. Thank you very much. 448 01:05:26.040 --> 01:05:37.949 Avi Chomsky: All right. Well, thank you for everyone who attended, virtually and in person, and thank you for your questions. Thank you so much for coming to talk with us and talk about your work with us. It was wonderful to have you. 449 01:05:38.130 --> 01:05:39.660 Gord Hill: Oh, thanks for having me. 450 01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:41.870 Avi Chomsky: All right. 451 01:05:43.910 --> 01:05:44.790 Gord Hill: Alright. 452 01:05:45.030 --> 01:05:46.470 Avi Chomsky: Have a good rest of your day. 453 01:05:46.850 --> 01:05:47.899 Gord Hill: Alright, thanks, son. 454 01:05:48.910 --> 01:05:50.950 Avi Chomsky: But… Alright. 455 01:05:54.990 --> 01:05:56.180 Avi Chomsky: Okay. 456 01:06:06.470 --> 01:06:08.800 Avi Chomsky: We do.